Translation is the topic du jour, with Jonathon bringing it up (implicitly) relative to the Lord’s Prayer, and Naomi pointing out Davezilla’s Five-Word Bible Project (and kvetching about translations of liturgical texts).
Relative to Jonathon’s post, I noted that the Lord’s Prayer begins with three parallel Greek constructions that the usual English trannslations break into a one-plus-two pattern:
Hallowed be thy name;
Thy kingdom come;
Thy will be done. . . .
One might represent the Greek [woodenly] by rendering these as:
Thy name be hallowed
Thy kingdom come
Thy will be done. . . —or,
Be-hallowed your name
[Be-]Come your kingdom
Be done your will.
Of course, no one’s going to mess with the structure of the first petition of the Lord’s Prayer. Talk about a third rail!
These constructions, by the way, are third-person imperatives (in the passive voice). Third-person imperatives make intro students’ eyes roll back in their heads. “How are we supposed to translate that?” (Well, maybe you don’t worry about translating it; you just read it in Greek and enjoy it.) “That doesn’t mean anything! There’s no way to say that!” (Perhaps not directly, in English. . . .)
We then move into the creative phase of the class, where students try out their hypothetical translations. The official approach to translating third-person imperatives goes, “Let them plow. . .” or “Let her run. . . ” (or whatever), but that’s problematic both because few English-speakers actually talk that way and because it sounds permissive rather than imperative. A wonderful student of mine suggested, ’They better. . .” or “He (she, it) better. . .” as an effective colloquial rendering of third-person imperatives. “he better rake the yard,” or “They better not sponge off the church” do more ably catch the force of the imperative than “Let him rake,” or “Let them not sponge.” But do anticipate congregations willingly adopting the version that reads,
Your name better be hallowed
Your kingdom better come
Your will better be done. . . .
I don’t, either—but it would be a blast, and a better translation.
As for Davezilla’s Five-Word Bible project, I found the funny versions intensely funny, but a number of the summaries entirely missed the point (or contents) of the book itself. The OT actually fares much better than the NT (there must be a better take on Deuteronomy than, “Damn. Itís like ... Africa hot!”). The gospels, though, are way off kilter. Davezilla gives “Christ was one cute baby!” for John’s Gospel, when John doesn’t so much as mention Jesus’ childhood (that line would do better for Luke, I’d say). And Matthew, Mark and Luke might be more aptly assimilated to one another and differentiated from one another. Really, the Pauline epistles work moderately well, and the rest flounder (well, apart from James: ìShut up and do it!î).
Speaking of James, did anyone else hear Paula Poundstone this week on Wait Wait Don’t Tell Me? When asked about the recent discovery of an ossuary that seems to have contained the bones of a James, the brother of Jesus, son of Joseph, she not only couldn’t identify whose bones had occupied the ossuary, but she expressed utter astonishment that Jesus might have had a brother. Since the NT refers to Jesus’ brothers at a number of places, I take it that Poundstone (whom I think is one of the funnier people on earth) just hadn’t read the NT much, or that she had simply accepted the Epiphanian view that the word that normally means “rothers” is here used to mean “cousins,” or the Hieronymian view that these are Joseph’s sons by an earlier marriage—though the note of amazement in her voice suggested that she really hadn’t ever heard that Jesus might have had sibs.
Posted by AKMA at October 29, 2002 12:02 AM | TrackBackThere's a bit of an issue with *singing* your new version, AKMA. I can't help but associate it with "Santa Claus is Comin' to Town," which is not at all appropriate.
But maybe if we set Randall Thompson onto it something could be done.
Posted by: Dorothea Salo at October 29, 2002 08:19 AMCan't you finesse the need for a third person imperative in English by using an epistemic modal "must?" "He MUST lie down with dogs." The word MUST functions a lot like BETTER in this example, but lacks the charm of the colloquialism. ("...or else!" is understood in this passage.) Use of the BANG or EXCLAMATION POINT to punctuate also accentuates the imperative mood. When added, it says something about the need to understand power and station as markers in the use of the imperative... third person usage seems to be possible only if it is understood that your will can be actualized by observational proxy. The powerful man's utterance, "He must lie down with dogs," followed by lots of "amens" and "yah bosses" and much scurrying around and gathering of dogs and enforcement of a recumbent posture (either prone or supine, the comand lacks precision) on the unfortunate third person in this example would, I think, create a context wherein third person imperative could be understood.
Posted by: Frank at October 29, 2002 08:36 AMRegarding Paula Poundstone: I didn't see the program you refer to, but can't imagine Poundstone knowing much about Jesus or his family. In the far recesses of her mind, however, she probably remembers learning something about Jesus tending bar at a wedding, and welcoming little children.
Posted by: Andrew Careaga at October 29, 2002 09:03 AMRegarding Paula Poundstone: I'm not surprised she doesn't know anything about Jesus' siblings, but I bet she remembers the parts where he turns water into wine and welcomes little children into his open arms.
Posted by: Andrew Careaga at October 29, 2002 09:05 AMHow about: oughta.
Your name oughta be hallowed.
Your kingdom oughta come.
Your will oughta be done.
If you want to be formal about it: ought to.
Posted by: Pascale Soleil at October 29, 2002 12:58 PMLooking for some help from you Greek scholars, I posted some thoughts I have about those first phrases of the Lord's prayer in my blog. Check it out.
Posted by: Dave Rogers at October 29, 2002 01:51 PMWait. Do you need to be a Greek scholar to join in here, or would simple epistemology suffice? If the latter, then blow away my previous comment. If the former, then as re. the discussion of "hallowed" and a suitable neologism to replace it, I think we may be stepping all over the question of historical/cultural perspective.
While I respect people who humble themselves before G-d, I think the posture of abasement has gone through some tremendous changes as Indo-european culture and languages have evolved over the last two or three millenia.
What I've gathered from the 3rd person imperative discussion is that there has been a cultural perspective where it made sense to have a grammatical construction implying that (Someone) better do something, or else! Absent a tradition of prostrating ourselves before a higher power, this doesn't make much sense to us speakers of modern English (regardless of current efforts in Washington and London to bring back the good old days). This may be why "hallowed" rings hollow too.
Maybe we shouldn't discard "hallowed" out of hand. "The Church" (organized religion) is an institution that changes more slowly than other parts of our culture, because our understanding of G-d is more fundamental than our taste in weskits. Wh- or wh-t better to abase ourselves before than G-d? And if our language lacks a third person imperative mood, why so much the more reason to explore the nuance of behavioral considerations relating to this greater power.
Posted by: Frank at October 30, 2002 01:12 PMWhere I come from the phrase is 'you'd better mow the lawn.' In liturgical english 'Your name had better be hallowed, Your kingdom had better come,Your will had better be done....' Southern to the max...
Posted by: susan at October 31, 2002 11:20 PMNote first that favoriteNumbers type changed. Instead of our familiar int, we're now using int*. The asterisk here is an operator, which is often called the "star operator". You will remember that we also use an asterisk as a sign for multiplication. The positioning of the asterisk changes its meaning. This operator effectively means "this is a pointer". Here it says that favoriteNumber will be not an int but a pointer to an int. And instead of simply going on to say what we're putting in that int, we have to take an extra step and create the space, which is what does. This function takes an argument that specifies how much space you need and then returns a pointer to that space. We've passed it the result of another function, , which we pass int, a type. In reality, is a macro, but for now we don't have to care: all we need to know is that it tells us the size of whatever we gave it, in this case an int. So when is done, it gives us an address in the heap where we can put an integer. It is important to remember that the data is stored in the heap, while the address of that data is stored in a pointer on the stack.
Posted by: Adrian at January 13, 2004 08:37 AMWhen Batman went home at the end of a night spent fighting crime, he put on a suit and tie and became Bruce Wayne. When Clark Kent saw a news story getting too hot, a phone booth hid his change into Superman. When you're programming, all the variables you juggle around are doing similar tricks as they present one face to you and a totally different one to the machine.
Posted by: Venetia at January 13, 2004 08:37 AMThe most basic duality that exists with variables is how the programmer sees them in a totally different way than the computer does. When you're typing away in Project Builder, your variables are normal words smashed together, like software titles from the 80s. You deal with them on this level, moving them around and passing them back and forth.
Posted by: Arnold at January 13, 2004 08:38 AM