AKMA’s Random Thoughts

Close down your pomo, 20 to 30-something special service and make people of all ages hang out with each other. Go to a potluck with people named Eunice and like it. Eat strange orange Jell-o salads and stop ‘yer whining.

This more or less describes the spirit in which I returned to organized religion from other places. In fact this person's whole blog makes me really happy. If it will make you and Bob any happier, her next post is an apology of sorts for having broken all of her own personal Rules for Bloggers in that ranty post.

Also, I would think that you would like this bit very much; I did:

Stop claiming that you don’t need any special qualifications to be a pastor. Seminary isn’t something you do because you think it will be fun to hang out with people who like to pontificate about the decline of the church as much as you do and how you will single-handedly save it with your brilliant new ideas. It’s meant to be a time of discernment and spiritual formation. You’re going to be caring for people’s souls. You don’t think you need some training in that?

Most particularly, I direct your attention to this:

Because I have very little formal church experience, to me the EC isn't something new that's bringing fresh life to the church. It was just the denomination that I was a part of. A shallow understanding of the whole thing, to be sure, hence my need to process through it.

Any "reforming" tradition needs to have a plan for the second generation: what will this tradition offer to those who come to it without knowledge of the status quo it was formed to react against?

I've added _Raw Faith_ to my aggregator. The post you linked to convinced me she's funny and a good writer. The following one convinced me she's struggling to be more fair and self-aware than that. I'm in. Thanks for the link.

akma, fitting words, aptly spoken.
the trouble is that everyone counsels patience but some of us are better (or worse) at it than others. tolerance hasn't exactly been an evangelical family value, if you know what i mean. it seems that patience as a virtue is everyone's mantra. the emerging church gurus beg for patience while they figure out where to take us next. the liturgical crowd is patiently waiting to be recognized for all the jewels of tradition they have to offer, while counseling that innovation will take yet more time. yet another call for patience. the whole thing is top-heavy & in danger of falling over, unless, of course, everyone becomes a little bit more patient.
sigh.
i wonder what would happen if all the people in charge became a little bit more patient with a process not so heavily dependent on their power or influence?
i'd like to find out.

I'm still thinking about posting a reply to the other thread, but this one struck my "fancy".

I'm sorry but explain why this isn't an elitist statement, if you don't mind Dr. AKMA:

"But more important than any of those considerations, emergent church is about people struggling to make theological sense of their lives under cultural, theological, technological, and geopolitical conditions that differ from those that define the mainstream."

And "emergent" is a buzzword. I associate "cool" with non-genuine claptrap, as do most. Anybody that would be naive enough to call something (I presume) as important as their Religious Faith "emergent" is..

..is someone NOT to be patient with. Why be patient with, and even more be instructed by, these fools Dr. AKMA...??

(I presume whoever your teachers were, and are, are not of this foolish nature.)

Is there some relevant Scripture which says self-important fools would be better qualified to lead than non-self-important non-fools?!?

I'm not aware of any.

Btw, you bring up several interesting (to me) esoteric points in this statement, Dr. AKMA:

"And the mainstream church doesn’t have a license from God to pass judgment on the emergents..."

I understand it's been said "Judge not lest ye be judged."

However, the brain (afaik, the "'rational' mind", the "emotional mind" and the "limbic mind", all 3) sole capability is judging between this and that.

And I would ask how one escapes from oneself doing this judging, and how one escapes from others doing it also, every breath of every moment of every day??

I contend by pretense, primarily. Even an airhead judges things "it's hot out", "sure is raining hard" so casually that (being an airhead) they can CLAIM to be non-judgemental (which is, itself, ANOTHER FRICKIN' JUDGEMENT).

Any words written reflect A JUDGEMENT, which illustrates this disutility of words in discussing these things, imo/o.

Nonetheless, given the 2000 years of experience the "mainstream church" ("mainstream" being both a strawman and a judgement)..

..well, it'd be "a miracle" if these new Church leaders who've annointed themselves in the past couple years who have equal "license", would it not??

Let these pompous folks come over here and discuss their understanding of these things Spiritual, and prove me wrong, if I am.

My comment probably should have been a trackback. I'm having trouble figuring out what to post where these days. Sorry.

When does emerging church stop emerging?

AKMA,

Thanks for your characteristically considered and generous response. Two things come to mind from your words...

(1) It was about ten years ago that I "discovered" the liturgy through, of all things, a forum discussion with a British vicar on the old CompuServe. At the time, I maintained that the form of liturgy, not the specific words, was what mattered. I'm not so sure of that today. The more I grapple with liturgy, the more meaningful it becomes as a whole, specific words and all. Taking it piecemeal into worship as many emerging-style churches do seems a violation of its integrity. In the liturgy, we're dealing with something more powerful than we realize.

Second, I grow more convinced almost daily that what the church really needs--evangelical, emerging, Willow Creek-ish and mainstream--is more Gospel and less of style, method and technique. In the last year I have been deeply touched by a reapprehension of the Gospel and how it exceeds--far exceeds--the way we do church in the 21st century.

Thanks for the soapbox. If I had more time, I'd blog!

Yes Dave:) Let us stop telling God how he should behave according to our methods and techniques.

Lucy

I complement you on your authenticity, Karen. It is wise to closely examine any movement that passes itself off as a product of God's inspiration.

While I have a great deal of affection for the emergent Church, there are potentials within it that strike me as scary. But then again, there is potential for abuse, misuse, and misrepresentation in every expression of Christianity I've ever encountered (including my personal faith).

When it comes to my feelings toward diverging expressions of our faith, a simple but useful rule has played out well for me. Whoever is not against us is for us.

In Mark 9:38-39 and Luke 9:49-50, the disciples get a little too heavy handed with believers outside their group. They literally said, "We told [the man who cast out demons in your name] to stop because he WASN'T ONE OF US." ANd Jesus said, hold up there. Don't stop him...whoever is not against us is for us! Anyone who even gives a cup of water in my name will not lose his reward.